Orangutans and palm oil

[Catherine]

One thing that is very clear is the fact that we are the whole reason why orangutan are going extinct.

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/environmen...-palm-oil/

http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/indone...orangutans

I find it hard to understand that 1200 young Orangutan were rescued. That means that many mothers were lost. The numbers are staggering. Much work is being done to help the Orangutans, but as long as we keep destroying the forest it is a losing battle.

We are destroying one of our closest relatives.

[Tobi]

It is very sad. And again it's a matter of 'profit'. The large companies must stand to make a few pennies extra on each item they manufacture. Those companies make a lot of money in profits per year, and just can't stand to make a few thousand(?) less in order to respect an indigenous species.
Greed, that's all it is. And meanwhile the poor creatures have to suffer the effects.
I try not to buy anything with palm oil. On a search for another tastier(?) vegan spread the other day I bought something. I don't like it now I have tried it. It tastes bad. Very much like 'margarine with a hint of Parmesan'....yuck. And guess what? It contains palm oil too.... How can anyone say a product is suitable for vegans when there is this heartlessness and cruelty behind the product's manufacture?
(I really ought to start taking my reading glasses with me when I go food shopping.)

[Catherine]

I had to get reading glasses so that I could shop, now I have trifocal glasses so I can see to get to the grocery store in the first place.

Shopping ecofriendly is a challenge. It adds to the difficulties of finding vegan food. Boycotting palm oil is a big one. It is hard to do. They sneak it into so many foods. It may be plant based, but many orangutans died or were orphaned for every harvest in a palm oil plantation.
http://www.orangutans-sos.org/news

I will see if I can find a list of good suppliers vs. bad suppliers. I think the zoo has a list in there rainforest display.

Actually there is a list of good things on this site.
http://www.orangutans.com.au/Orangutans-...tives.aspx

This site lists things to avoid.
http://www.orangutan.com/orangutans/items-to-avoid/

If we all speak with our shopping lists we can bring about change. I just hope it is not too late. For some orangutans it already is.

[Catherine]

This company is trying to do better. They were one of the worst and now they are trying to do what is right.
http://bit.ly/1DIsNLp

Even having one company showing that it is possible to do the right thing can help pressure the other companies into changing.

Every step in the right direction means more hope for the orangutans.

[LPC]

I don't usually rate threads, but five stars for this one! It shows the dangers to wildlife and the environment very clearly.

In addition to all the suffering we are causing indirectly to wildlife by buying products from palm oil, the products themselves are dangerous. Here in France, foods containing palm oil have been dropped by many of the main supermarket chains (health concerns). But as almost everywhere in the world, sodium lauryl sulfate and sodium laureth sulfate are still very common in shampoos. It is difficult to find anything without one or the other.

Here are some pages about the dangers of these two nasties:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...lfate.aspx
and
https://realizebeauty.wordpress.com/2009...uss-about/

[Tobi]

It seems so difficult to get away from Palm oil in one form or another. I just googled "natural shampoo, shower gel. soap" Even some of the ones which came up had what appeared to be dubious ingredients. Yet there are many plants which contain what are called natural "saponins" (soap-like substances) And some of those plants grow as common weeds. Surely (I think) someone with some knowledge of chemistry can make alternative ingredients from these plants....(?) And surely (I think) -if done on a large scale, costs could be kept at a minimum. Why do we have to use palm oil derivatives? And at such a tragic cost for these poor animals!

And why would people be happy to factory-farm animals....yet can't get their heads around factory-farming weeds??

[Catherine]

Quote:And why would people be happy to factory-farm animals....yet can't get their heads around factory-farming weeds??

So well put.

Those are good articles. They do explain why I can't use many of the products on the market. The whole body hygiene industry needs to sort itself out. We use way too many chemicals and way too many products.

The household cleaner issue is even worse. Most household cleaners are way too dangerous to use in an ordinary home. A product that warns that it is dangerous to skin and clothing is then sprayed into the air and fine droplets are inhaled. If it harms your clothes and skin, what does it do to your lungs?

We endanger ourselves and that is bad. Worse is the environmental damage we do to produce these products. I think Orangutans symbolize the mess we are making of the whole planet. Their plight should warn us that we are on the wrong track.

In the mean time Orangutans are doing the best they can to adapt.
https://student.societyforscience.org/ar...e-low-road
We don't give them a choice. We cut down the trees and leave a road so they have to use it to get around. Their willingness to adapt is admirable, but they shouldn't have to do this.

Just because we want to go down the wrong road doesn't mean we should force our gentle cousins to take that road too.

[Tobi]

(02-10-2015, 03:19 PM)Catherine Wrote: The household cleaner issue is even worse. Most household cleaners are way too dangerous to use in an ordinary home. A product that warns that it is dangerous to skin and clothing is then sprayed into the air and fine droplets are inhaled. If it harms your clothes and skin, what does it do to your lungs?

So true. There are many people whose pets are suffering from what have been diagnosed as allergies. Many more people than there used to be -also are suffering from allergies. While some of these can be food related, what people spray into the air, launder the pets' blankets with, clean their carpets with -will all affect the animals at home. And some are heavy and will lie at lower levels in the air for a while before settling or dissipating. Those are the levels at which pets are breathing!
Natural products are far safer, especially when using ingredients like bicarbonate of soda, vinegar, lemon juice and lavender oil. But plain old WATER does a brilliant job when used in a steam cleaner. There are many hand held lightweight steam cleaners, and no chemicals are needed at all. Plus chemical cleaners cost a lot of money, if you count all the usual household cleaning products that people think their kitchens should be stocked with.

(02-10-2015, 03:19 PM)Catherine Wrote: Just because we want to go down the wrong road doesn't mean we should force our gentle cousins to take that road too.

So very true. But it seems manufacturing companies, and big business don't even wish to take indigenous peoples' needs into account....or poor people in certain areas. Just as they disregard the Orangutans. It's the same problem of their own profits coming first and so what? about who may be damaged in the process.

[Catherine]

People forget that good old fashioned soap and water is enough to get your hands clean.
Baking soda will clean most sinks. Vinegar will do most floors.
I understand that these things actually disinfect and have no dangerous side affects. Peroxide is also a safe cleaner disinfectant.

There is no need to use dangerous chemicals that are hurting the earth to produce. The dangerous derivatives of palm oil seem to be in everything. It is hard to live free from such stuff. It requires a conscious effort. If we all made the effort we could change things.

Orangutans and indigenous peoples have much in common. The big companies are willing to exploit them for profit.

[Tobi]

Washing powder and washing up liquid are the only ones I buy. They are bad enough. But Ecover do environmentally-friendly ones.
I remember in the old days (1950s) There were large square blocks of green 'household' soap. Plain soap. This didn't smell very nice, but was used in a myriad of different ways. It was grated up using a large cheese grater (specially for that job of course) and dissolved in warm water, to make liquid for washing both clothes and dishes. No one bought detergent or washing up liquid.
This worked best in soft-water areas. In hard water areas there was horrible scum on the water because of the soap. There was something added to the water to 'soften' it I recall -but can't remember what.
Then it was about the late 50s early 60s, when housewives started to pride themselves on which new concoctions they had in their kitchen for doing washing and general cleaning. Powder detergents came in, and all sorts of sprays and air-fresheners etc. No-one cared what toxins were in them, or about environmental damage, or gave even one thought to the natural habitats of many species, which were starting to be destroyed! These were the days when average households used DDT sprays in the rooms to kill flies!
I must have breathed so much DDT! (phew!)