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Porton Down does outrageous experiments
I have been hearing about his place since I was a kid and I for one do not feel safer because of anything they do.
I don't know any words strong enough to describe how revolting and horrific is the cruelty of the place. Why such a place still exists in the 21st century is beyond my understanding. It rates up there with the Gadhimai slaughter. This however is not a primitive blood lust ritual, it is systematic and carefully planned outrageous cruelty towards animals.

How is it possible that we are not so outraged that we storm the place and tear it down brick by brick. Of course the pen is mightier than the sword and the mouse is stronger than both together. So let's get everyone talking and aware and outraged. Porton Down should have been shut down many decades ago.
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Oh, yes, Porton Down.....Anyone in the UK (or British) knows about it. Most people are shocked when they read about the horrific nature of the experiments done, and public opinion is against it. The trouble is, successive governments have defended its continuance based on "security defence" nonsense such as "it protects our troops".

The biggest problem of all is that the Ministry of Defence has exemption from animal experimentation rules. Basically, if it is for military research, the experimenters are free to administer poisonous gases, introduce extreme disease (such as anthrax in the past), burn, shoot, maim, cut apart without anaesthetic, crush bones, torture in any way they please - all without any risk of prosecution. We should also be clear that such research, vile as it is, is also carried out with the objective of finding new biological weapons to use against "aggressors". That is how the biological weapons race started in the first place, with Porton Down researching into mustard gas use on troops.

It is an outrage. I would love to say that other countries do not do the same, but sadly that is not the case. Thank you so much for publicising this horrendous research establishment, Catherine.
I found this:

and this:
Tobi, I am glad that someone is fighting this terrible place.

LPC I have known about Porton Down most of my life. When I was ten, I watched a one hour news special about chemical and biological warfare, in particular the research that was being done(back in the early 60's). Porton Down was heavily featured. There were places in Canada and other countries, but it is Porton Down that I remember most clearly. Probably a ten year old should not have watched such stuff, but I have always liked to know the truth even if it is terrible.

It seems that they are worse now. In the name of National Security and so called defence, countries will excuse the most horrific experiments. It is bizarre that they keep repeating the same cruel experiments. They are not learning anything new and they are not making us safer. We are in more danger because of the stuff they have developed.
I just hope that something can be done now to shut this place down. Maybe someday they will hold tours of it the way they do the old Nazi concentration camps. First we have to stop it. I am hoping public opinion can carry weight if enough people know about the atrocities.
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(03-13-2015, 02:19 PM)Catherine Wrote: It seems that they are worse now. In the name of National Security and so called defence, countries will excuse the most horrific experiments. It is bizarre that they keep repeating the same cruel experiments. They are not learning anything new and they are not making us safer. We are in more danger because of the stuff they have developed.

This is true.
Even looked at from their standpoint, chemists and biologists can tell us which substances are toxic to the human system. They can tell us what effects to expect, without having to subject innocent animals to horrific experiments and torture.

And surely by now we have enough studies of epidemiology to tell us which viruses/bacteria etc are devastating to humans?

And if ammunition must be tested, can't they operate with already slaughtered animals? (who have already left this weird world.)

And even so, all this does not combat terrorism, or ensure the safety of anyone. All it does is go round and round in deadly circles.
They keep testing chemicals so they can find more deadly combinations. They created nerve gases decades ago, but they want faster more aggressive weapons. They know all about viruses and bacteria, but they seek out more dangerous strains. They are trying to make weapons from them.
It is horrific that they are doing things to animals. It is needless cruelty. From that point of view it is unacceptable and must be stopped.

The other side of it is what they are developing and why. We don't need more weapons. We do not need to find "better" ways to destroy. It is risky that they might find something that we can't control.

All that research money could be used to find cures for diseases. They could be researching ways to overcome the effects of pollution and climate change. We cannot afford to waste our resources like that and as a civilized society we cannot afford to overlook such cruelty to helpless animals. It diminishes all of us.
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Apart from the animal cruelty issue - which is of course vital - there is also another dimension to this. By creating ever more and more potent and dangerous chemical agents and viruses, this creates a spiralling weapons race between countries. Humans managed, however, to stop the nuclear weapons race from spiralling further, so we could easily do the same for chemical and biological weapons. There is also the risk that one day, one of these super-viruses (which could wipe out all of humanity) could escape from a laboratory. There have been the odd leaks in the past from laboratories, but luckily they were not the most virulent types.

But in any case, the use of animals for these horrific experiments, specifically exempted from the limited rules which exist for medical experiments, cannot be justified morally, no matter how the apologists for them may try. If some humans feel compelled to invent ever more potent chemical and biological weapons to destroy others, they should visit a psychiatrist to ask why they are so paranoid about being attacked by an imagined aggressor. That is their problem. But why should innocent animals - who have no wars to fight - be made to suffer for a paranoid arms race?
Well said!

I also wonder about the people who actually do the cruel acts. What does that do to them as persons. Would you want that person living next door to you. Do you even want them loose in society. They are basically licenced psychopaths. What is the difference between a Porton Down worker and some guy in jail for being a serial killer(It sounds like the lead in to a bad joke and I wish it was). There is no difference, but the Porton Down workers have figured out how to get paid for it.

In every way places like Porton Down are an offence to civilization itself. Is it different than the guys using live animals to bait greyhounds? In its lack of morality it is the same, but Porton Down is many degrees worse.
As a decent society we cannot allow such behavior to go on. It may take work to get rid of such things, but we must work to stop this.
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You raise some good points, Catherine. I would imagine that working on horrific experiments every day would totally wipe out any sense of compassion or empathy. There is a distinct risk of such workers becoming so sick in the head that cruelty becomes "normal". I read a good few years ago about a research worker at Huntingdon Life Sciences, who was caught on video repeatedly inserting and removing a syringe from a rabbit, in time to music. He found it amusing and was passing the time. He did lose his job, but only after it was well publicised.
Sadly that workers behavior is probably quite common. People become desensitized to pain and suffering and they no longer see it.
Slaughter house workers get that way. People who work in factory farms get that way. It is human nature to adapt and accept things as normal.
People who work in difficult situations have to watch for the adaption factor. Two people I know who worked with disturbed kids had to switch to other areas. They were both starting to see all children as disturbed. Their friends and family warned them of the changes they were seeing.

As a society we adapt and take on new normal all the time. Right now certain cruel situations are seen as normal. If we become sensitive tot he issue we will reject that normal. If we reject the places like Porton Down and what they stand for then we will no longer accept their behavior as normal. The important thing now is to make people aware of Porton Down and all the cruel experiments that happen there.
Once the public knows and objects there is a chance of changing things. Public opinion is a powerful weapon.
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