UK's Badgers &TB -Both sides of the story

[Tobi]

So who is right?

This news article dated last October (2014) says Badgers DO spread TB to cattle:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24493225

Whereas this one (August 2011) doesn't:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/b...-bovine-tb

I have no idea what is going on. But Badgers don't deserve it. There has to be 'an agenda' of some kind behind all this because such things humans come up with are usually based on some money-making agenda....
I just can never see quite what.

[Knight of Albion]

Badgers are scapegoats for bad husbandry.

The pro-cull mob regularly quote the Irish cull as 'proof' a cull is effective and justified. What they don't tell you is that the Irish badger cull involved the SIMULTANEOUS introduction of cattle movement restrictions, a new improved and more accurate testing procedure, together with a mass slaughter of badgers. There was no scientific control.

In the Republic of Ireland in 1954 , 17% of the Republic of Ireland (ROI) national herd had bTB. A programme of testing and cattle movement restrictions reduced incidence of bTB in the ROI national herd to 3% by the mid-60s. A far bigger reduction than the 2000- programme. And all this without a single badger being killed.

[Tobi]

Absolutely, Knight. I read that too. So what is going on?? Can't people put two and two together and make four? Is that really asking too much?

I know Badgers can get TB. So can cattle. But there is a weight of evidence in support of NOT culling the Badgers, so what's it all about?

[Catherine]

What is clear is that the badgers have been getting the TB from the cattle. The cattle are clearly spreading it to each other.

Restricting cattle movement and testing for TB brought things under control in the past. Why wouldn't they go back to what worked.
It is easier to scapegoat the badgers. It may be easier, but it won't solve the problem.
Is there not a TB vaccine. Certainly the cattle should be vaccinated. They could also vaccinate the badgers. It would probably be about the same cost as the culls. It would be more effective. Once enough cattle and badgers are vaccinated there would be little chance of transmission.

You are right about bad husbandry being a problem. They could get some infectious disease specialists to review how cattle are kept and make recommendations. I am sure better hygiene, better ventilation and better balanced nutrition would improve the TB situation.
Of course that would be sensible.
Badger culls are more dramatic than washing the floors properly.

[LPC]

The case seems pretty clear to me. For example the key paragraph in the Guardian article you quoted, Tobi, is this:

"So, to the question of whether badgers are responsible for increasing infection rates in cattle. If they are, how have cattle remained free of bTB in Scotland, where no badgers have been killed? Why do they have it in the Isle of Man, where there are no badgers? And why are bTB rates twice as high in Ireland, where so many badgers have been killed that they are extinct in many areas?" Yes, yes! That raises exactly the right questions. The trouble is, the culling community is not listening.

There is an interesting article here: http://www.brianmay.com/brian/letters/le...OTLAND.pdf

This article further elaborates on this issue of Scotland being almost TB free, despite a badger population. It is ironic that the only cases of TB in cattle in Scotland were when they had been imported from England!

To be honest, EU bureaucracy is holding back any vaccination solution. To be fully effective, two things are needed:

Speedy development (think €s!) of a vaccine which would protect badgers and cattle;
Speedy development of a DIVA test.
(For an explanation, see http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.u...terson.pdf - esp. p2)

The trouble is that most European countries are officially TB free, so they are not willing to invest large bucks (more correctly, large €s) into such development. The EU, meanwhile, has officially banned the current BCG vaccination for cattle - see the EU letter quoted above.

The UK has therefore sought other solutions to its problems. The only issue there is that it has come up with the wrong answers! Eradication of poor badgers will not solve the problem. Only a real lock-down of cattle movements and annual testing of cattle (stupidly abandoned by the UK in the 80s) will solve the current crisis. But the UK doesn't want to go down that road, for fear of the economic repercussions for farmers. But that is the only road which will work for the moment.

[Tobi]

Yes, Scotland has its act together concerning bTB. That much is obvious. And the rare cases are brought in from cattle from England and Wales. That tells everyone something!

"in those areas of England
and Wales where
tuberculosis in cattle is
rampant, the vast
majority of badgers
(86%) remain clear of
infection" (Quoted from side notes on: http://www.brianmay.com/brian/letters/le...OTLAND.pdf )

What I still cannot understand is why when such evidence is well-documented, should the culling of Badgers even be considered? I really want to know what this is all about! The 'economic repercussions for farmers' which you mentioned, LPC -apparently pose no threat to Scottish farmers....

[Catherine]

That was a really good article!

I did not know that cattle TB is a different disease than human TB. I always assumed they were the same. Can humans contract the bovine disease?

It just seems so clear from an epidemiological point of view that testing, vaccinating and regulating cattle movement is the only way to control the spread of TB. It is clearly being spread from cow to cow and herd to herd.

Is there some kind of political agenda linked to the badger cull?

I wouldn't feel safe in a cull area with a bunch of people out there with guns shooting at anything that they think might be a badger.

[Tobi]

People do go out shooting where I live. There were a number of times I would be walking in a completely deserted place in the evening and suddenly hear the crack of a shotgun from not far behind the hedge!
I used to just throw myself to the ground, pull Misty with me, and call out that we were there. Misty was great in situations like that and followed suit immediately.
Goodness knows what they were shooting. Maybe rabbits, or maybe foxes. I never found out. I never got any answer from the shooter, and never saw who it was. Most often they would cease fire though, and we made a dash for it.

I wonder if they were out shooting Badgers.....possibly.

[Catherine]

Random shooters like that would be scary. They are not really looking where they are shooting. You are lucky you and Misty didn't get shot.

I don't think most people are responsible enough to handle a gun. I suppose in a rural area anyone can get a hold of a gun. Most farm houses must have them.
Since you have no large wildlife I can't see why any farm needs a gun. It is too tempting to use it at the wrong time.

Certainly killing badgers is the wrong time.

Any time the answer is to cull something, you know that is not the right solution. It is a quick fix, but it doesn't actually fix the problem.