Vegetarianism

[Catherine]

Quote:Not sure on prices over there, but here 300g organic unrefined coconut oil is about $13, but I find since I don't use it for all of my cooking (and don't need to use a lot when I do cook/bake with it) it lasts ages.

That is a good price. It might be more expensive here because it has to be imported from farther away. I find if I keep it cool most oils keep for ages.

Quote:I don't see what not eating animals will do for the meat industry. They will still kill animals for food until it is against the law. I sign legislation to try and make it against the law to kill them.

It is not a direct cause and effect situation, but when enough people refuse to eat meat because of the cruelty, then the meat industry will have to change. People are starting to look at where their food comes from and how it is produced. A lot of people do not want to eat meat from animals that lived horrible lives. If we boycott the worst offenders and demand change they will listen. They can see a loss of income if they don't change.
The whole cage egg issue is a good example. Big companies are being pressured about using eggs from caged hens. They are committing to change rather than lose business.

If we make it clear that we can live very well as vegetarians then we have the power to change the system. The meat industry needs us as customers. We don't need to eat their products if we don't like what they are doing.

[AnimalFamily]

How funny. Now see I never thought of using it on my hair.
One nice thing about cooking with it is it makes toast type foods very crispy. They don't get soggy like when you use butter etc.
I also use canola oil when I'm not using coconut oil...and I will admit to using butter from time to time....I know, shame on me, lol!!

[Catherine]

Butter isn't bad for you. You just can't eat too much. Coconut oil is very good for your hair, especially in the winter when it gets so dry.

I have never cooked with it, but I don't fry much. I cook with canola. How do the two oils compare?

[Ruth]

(10-19-2015, 04:45 PM)Catherine Wrote:

Quote:Not sure on prices over there, but here 300g organic unrefined coconut oil is about $13, but I find since I don't use it for all of my cooking (and don't need to use a lot when I do cook/bake with it) it lasts ages.

That is a good price. It might be more expensive here because it has to be imported from farther away. I find if I keep it cool most oils keep for ages.

Quote:I don't see what not eating animals will do for the meat industry. They will still kill animals for food until it is against the law. I sign legislation to try and make it against the law to kill them.

It is not a direct cause and effect situation, but when enough people refuse to eat meat because of the cruelty, then the meat industry will have to change. People are starting to look at where their food comes from and how it is produced. A lot of people do not want to eat meat from animals that lived horrible lives. If we boycott the worst offenders and demand change they will listen. They can see a loss of income if they don't change.
The whole cage egg issue is a good example. Big companies are being pressured about using eggs from caged hens. They are committing to change rather than lose business.

If we make it clear that we can live very well as vegetarians then we have the power to change the system. The meat industry needs us as customers. We don't need to eat their products if we don't like what they are doing.

The meat industry is a huge business and boycotting them won't do anything until the laws are changed. They will keep killing animals and we will just feel awful about it.

[Catherine]

Quote:The meat industry is a huge business and boycotting them won't do anything until the laws are changed. They will keep killing animals and we will just feel awful about it.

You are right it is a big industry. Individuals boycotting does nothing. However when we pull together for a cause, change can happen.
People are eating less meat. The statistics are showing that. People are asking where their meat comes from and how is it raised. The same is true of eggs and milk.

We would have no chance if we were taking on the whole industry, but people are targeting pieces of it. McDonalds was pressured about its use of cage eggs. Social media makes this possible because we all can sign a petition. They have given in and agreed to change in a lot of different counties. They are looking for a better source of eggs.
So, one big chain like McDonalds changes. Other groups will follow their lead.

It is a slow process. Laws will need to be changed in the end, but for laws to change, law makers need to see that we want laws to change.
If it was one person chanting "change the law" it would be hopeless. It is not one voice, it is the voices of all of us who reject animal cruelty in the food industry.
It won't be one victory, it will be a thousand small victories. Water can wear away a hard rock one drop at a time if there are enough drops and enough time. There are enough drops and we have however much time it takes.

[Tobi]

(10-21-2015, 05:04 AM)Ruth Wrote:

(10-19-2015, 04:45 PM)Catherine Wrote:

Quote:Not sure on prices over there, but here 300g organic unrefined coconut oil is about $13, but I find since I don't use it for all of my cooking (and don't need to use a lot when I do cook/bake with it) it lasts ages.

That is a good price. It might be more expensive here because it has to be imported from farther away. I find if I keep it cool most oils keep for ages.

Quote:I don't see what not eating animals will do for the meat industry. They will still kill animals for food until it is against the law. I sign legislation to try and make it against the law to kill them.

It is not a direct cause and effect situation, but when enough people refuse to eat meat because of the cruelty, then the meat industry will have to change. People are starting to look at where their food comes from and how it is produced. A lot of people do not want to eat meat from animals that lived horrible lives. If we boycott the worst offenders and demand change they will listen. They can see a loss of income if they don't change.
The whole cage egg issue is a good example. Big companies are being pressured about using eggs from caged hens. They are committing to change rather than lose business.

If we make it clear that we can live very well as vegetarians then we have the power to change the system. The meat industry needs us as customers. We don't need to eat their products if we don't like what they are doing.

The meat industry is a huge business and boycotting them won't do anything until the laws are changed. They will keep killing animals and we will just feel awful about it.

I absolutely agree with you Ruth, that the laws need to be changed.
Already gone are the days when people didn't need to think about the welfare of the animals they put on their plates. Nowadays thanks mainly to the internet, and many people asking the right questions, and those who work in any way at all, for conditions to change, people are becoming far more aware of such things, and more willing to try to make changes.

However, Catherine makes a point. If one person boycotts factory farmed meat -or even meat altogether, that will make no difference except to that one person and their ethics. But if a billion people (etc) refuse to support factory farming, or become vegetarian -that will make a tremendous difference to the 'demand' -for which the 'supply' is created. Suppliers will be forced into change because the 'demand' has changed.

I feel it is at least a two-pronged situation. Anyone who feels strongly about the fate of 'food animals' can employ many different tactics to bring about changes.

[LPC]

Being a vegetarian or a vegan does not mean that we cannot be pragmatic about what can achieved, over how long and in what ways. Realistically, if meat eaters (I'm not one) put really strong pressure on those companies who produce meat (by petitions, etc.), they will often back down because of commercial pressure. There have been several pieces of good news recently - e.g. McDonald's now use free range eggs in many countries, such as the UK and NZ - see http://qz.com/451857/mcdonalds-announces...w-zealand/ and http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatma...range.html

Yes, I know that so-called free range isn't really the ideal that we imagine it to be, but any move which improves animal welfare must be welcomed. A step at a time is better than nothing. Or "Rome wasn't built in a day", if you like those sort of sayings, LOL!

So I'm definitely with Catherine on this question. A ban on eating meat will only happen when people in a country have gained enough ability to empathise with animal suffering - and sadly, it won't be tomorrow or any day soon. Old habits die hard. Humanity still has a long way to go.

[Ruth]

I didn't eat meat for over 10 years and nothing changed. The meat industry kept killing. I often thought if enough people stop eating it it will matter. But I have changed my view from experience. Laws MUST change!!!

[Catherine]

Quote:I didn't eat meat for over 10 years and nothing changed. The meat industry kept killing. I often thought if enough people stop eating it it will matter. But I have changed my view from experience. Laws MUST change!!!

That is the point, Laws must change. But laws are made in response to the will of the people. We declare our will by petitions and protests and lobbying. We also make a statement through our actions.

That being said, I don't think my not eating meat will change anything.
I am doing it because I don't want to be part of the cruelty. I know how animals are treated and I want no part of it. I am also careful to use products not tested on animals. I know that won't change things, but it means no animal suffered because of my shampoo.

Changes to laws require years of work and petitioning and getting the message across. I don't have to be a vegetarian to do that, but I feel better for trying to live differently.

[LPC]

[quote='Catherine' pid='10158' dateline='1445486833']

Quote:That being said, I don't think my not eating meat will change anything. I am doing it because I don't want to be part of the cruelty. I know how animals are treated and I want no part of it. I am also careful to use products not tested on animals. I know that won't change things, but it means no animal suffered because of my shampoo.

Exactly! That is the whole point. We may not succeed in getting all animals protected in our lifetime, but at least we can avoid contributing to the suffering.