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Sugar Glider cull in Tasmania
#11
In this particular situation it is an emergency for the parrots. They could easily become extinct. Yes the sugar gliders do need to be removed as soon as possible. 

However I do agree with LPC that this is a global issue of humans making mistakes and now needing to fix them. I think we have an obligation to find humane solutions. Culling things is a bit of a coverup. It is not an acknowledgement that we have a problem to fix. It is not the fault of the animals involved. They didn't ask to be where they are. They are not trying to drive the parrots to extinction. The sugar gliders are just trying to live. If they can kill them, then surely they can catch them.

What we do after that I don't know. The parrots will need a lot of help to survive.
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Catherine

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#12
Yeah for sure. And culling has never been a first option. Scientists and the public have been lobbying to get logging stopped, because it is just utter madness that it continues. But we clearly have very little power against these companies and corrupt governments. Doesn't mean we will stop trying though.
Although it is a human-induced problem, it's because of this that gliders and birds are fighting for the same resources and the gliders unfortunately have the upper hand.
I think scientists are just doing the best they can at the moment where it's native and critically endangered vs introduced species.

They cull introduced possums in NZ and turn them into hats or whatever and there doesn't seem to be much of an outcry over that.

How is it any different to eradicating rats from islands where seabirds nest? Would you expect people to collect and rehome all of the rats back to their native lands?
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#13
Who introduced the rats on these islands? Humans! They came with their ships to remote islands (where rats did not previously exist), complete with rats on board: sometimes centuries ago, sometimes more recently. But still we humans seem to learn nothing. We go on making the same mistakes. That is what worries me. We just don't get it.

Platy, I totally agree with you about the logging. That is outrageous, especially when the environment needs trees so badly. Yet another example of the folly of humans.
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#14
I am sure logging is very much part of the problem. Blaming the sugar gliders is not fair. They are not the whole cause of the parrot decline. Habitat loss may be a more serious issue, Killing all the sugar gliders will not save the parrots if their habitat is gone.

Right now when there is any problem with introduced species vs native species the solution is always a cull. I didn't know about the NZ possums. I would have been against that too. The possums didn't deserve to die. The sugar gliders didn't deserve to die. 
You are right LPC about the rats. We brought them to places where they don't belong and they don't deserve to die.

A cull is an easy way to blame a problem on an introduced species and act like the things we do have not effected species survival. Instead of a cull we should admit that we have made a mistake and then look for solutions. 
Can we save all the introduced species? Can we save all the native species? I don't know, but we should have to try to do what is right not what is convenient.
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Catherine

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#15
I found an article about the Swifts Parrots and the changes they have made on their lifestyle.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/05/swift-parrot-polyamory-a-new-threat-to-critically-endangered-species-survival

It is a very complex issue. I hope they are able to save the parrots.
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Catherine

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#16
Concerning rats on isolated islands, I read some while ago about their having been controlled via an additive making them infertile. Food with additive was dropped all over the island and the rats disappeared via natural causes, because there were no more babies. Unfortunately I can't find the article any more.

No doubt the animal rights activists might not like that solution, but at least it allows the rats to live out their brief lives normally without killing. Of course, the situation with the sugar gliders and parrots is much more complicated and is on mainland, not an island. I share platy's concern for the future of the parrots and I just hope that a more humane solution can be found. if humans are intelligent enough to create advanced robotics, fly into space, etc. then they should be able to find a humane solution to a problem like the current one.
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#17
(12-07-2018, 06:58 PM)LPC Wrote: Concerning rats on isolated islands, I read some while ago about their having been controlled via an additive making them infertile. Food with additive was dropped all over the island and the rats disappeared via natural causes, because there were no more babies. Unfortunately I can't find the article any more.

No doubt the animal rights activists might not like that solution, but at least it allows the rats to live out their brief lives normally without killing. Of course, the situation with the sugar gliders and parrots is much more complicated and is on mainland, not an island. I share platy's concern for the future of the parrots and I just hope that a more humane solution can be found. if humans are intelligent enough to create advanced robotics, fly into space, etc. then they should be able to find a humane solution to a problem like the current one.

I like this post. I wish there was a "like" button.

Yes that idea is at least a humane solution to an overpopulation problem. I agree that humans are capable of so much and are capable of coming up with a humane way of dealing with this issue.
Yet sometimes an innate laziness when it comes to animals, and cost of course (which motivates humans apparently more than anything else!) can stand in the way.
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#18
Quote:I like this post. I wish there was a "like" button.
I agree with you. 
So considered your post "liked".

Doing something to make the rats infertile is a humane and effective way to control their numbers.
It is like the Trap Neuter Release program for feral cats in cities. If you just kill the cats more cats always seem to take their place. Neutering them allows them to live out their lives without in peace without the numbers of cats increasing. Gradually the numbers drop off as cats die of natural causes. It would work the same way for rats.

The solution of rendering animals sterile might not always be there. It is also not the fastest way to do things.
It is humane however. We should always be looking for the humane solution. Right now we tend to just cull things.

Saving the parrots is an emergency and all the reasons for their decline need to be looked at. If we don't take loss of habitat seriously then the sugar gliders will have died for nothing. A more balanced approach might have long term success.

This is just a small part of the global problem of introduced species. Perhaps  it is time for a global conference on the subject. We need to bring scientists together to look for solutions. Each case might be unique, but there are common elements. If they start with the premise that we caused the problem and have an obligation to fix it, they might get so meaningful results.  Each country on its own looks to a cull as a solution. It is not humane and culls are not really the right solution.
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Catherine

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