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Ethel's teeth
#1
You may remember me posting about Annie's tooth issues earlier in the year. Well her half sister Ethel has developed similar, but not as extensive, problems.
Last week my daughter Anna noticed that Ethel's teeth didn't feel right when she was licking her (Ethel licking Anna I might add!!).
I check their teeth every few weeks and they were due a quick look.
Ethel's bottom front teeth had become very long and had worn the top ones back further than they should have been. We were visiting the Rescue we volunteer at the next day so Ethel came along as well.
Suzy at the rescue trimmed the bottom teeth and said they were just as hard as Annie's had been and that the back teeth hadn't been engaging properly and had become overgrown. Poor Ethel's tongue was about to become trapped under a couple inward growing spurs from her first molars.
Luckily, after much toing and froing we managed to get an appointment with the specialist vet, not our usual vet but his business partner, and she filed Ethel's teeth right back.
Well poor little Ethel was really out of sorts when we collected her as she has never really been to the vet before, she's been a companion to the others but never needed treatment for herself.
She seemed shell shocked and sat frozen in the carrier so Anna popped her inside her cardi for the trip home.
It took most of the evening for her to relax, the others did their best to help her by washing her face and snuggling up to her in the pen.
Eventually she felt better enough to come out for veggies for supper and has taken some softened pellets as well.
This morning she is more herself if a little subdued and very dribbly. Her mouth must feel quite strange to her.

I'm sure this is a genetic thing as the bottom front teeth on both girls are doing the same thing ie growing fast and VERY hard. Ethel is fortunate to have kept her top teeth, unlike Annie who soldiers on without any top front teeth to speak of. Also she has avoided the bony infection that plagued Annie for most of last year.

I feel this is a testament to the dangers of inbreeding. I have done a little more research on the girls parentage.
They were from a breeder who was breeding Red coloured pigs like Annie.
The girls share a father who was red (not agouti as I have previously mistakenly said) and both mothers were red. All 3 parent were litter mates ie full siblings so our girls are half sisters and first cousins on both sides.
No doubt their grandparents had been back bred ( ie father to daughter, mother to son) for many generations to continue getting the desirable feature, but our girls are now left with issues which could be life threatening.
Most breeder sows rarely live as long as our girls so these issues would not have been apparent during their fertile life.

How lucky we are that our vets are skilled with piggies and don't just recommend putting them to sleep, and to have Suzy to manage the teeth for us on an ongoing basis. Not all vets are keen for "amateurs" to have anything to do with treating pets, but Suzy is well known to them and they appreciate the fact that she can do this for us so our girls don't have to have a GA every time.
Greeting from Wales.
Hwyl Fawr o'r Cymru.
This is the web site of the rescue I volunteer at.
http://guinearescue.blogspot.co.uk/
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#2
Poor Ethel. I feel for her. No one likes having dental work done.
I am glad it wasn't as bad a problem as Annie had. Maybe you caught it sooner or maybe Ethel is lucky. I am glad you have good vets who understand guinea pigs.

Interesting that two inbreed females would have the same dental trouble. As you say, inbreeding is not a good idea. If you breed two related animal together to preserve a special trait, then you must use an outside cross for the next generation. I think people do not understand the problems that inbreeding can cause. Some traits are actually lethal if you double them up. Half the offspring will die simply because of being too closely inbred.

Was the breeder trying to keep a special colour or was she too lazy/cheap to bring in new stock. It is not fair to Annie or Ethel or any other animal damaged by careless breeding.
[Image: IMG_9091.JPG]
Catherine

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#3
I'm sure the breeder was trying to "improve" and preserve the colour. Annie is completely red with red eyes and this is quite rare here. Lots of piggies have some red in their coats but a completely red coat is unusual.
Of the 7 adults that came into the rescue together 2 were males, 5 were pregnant females. One died before giving birth. One aborted her litter early. One died giving birth and her litter didn't survive. The other two had one surviving baby each and survived themselves. The surviving babies were Annie and Ethel. Their Mums were paired up with other females and rehomed, never to breed again. They were not very old but had been bred many times and appeared older than they were.
Suzy warned us when we adopted them that they were very inbred and may not live as long as we might hope, but our girls have done very well. Both are 5 and as we know not all piggies get to be 5, and although their tooth issues are serious we are fortunate to have the help we need to manage them.
Annie fares very well with her odd dentition as long as we prepare her food correctly and Ethel now appears completely back to normal, of course her teeth will need close monitoring and probably never be "normal" again but at least we can manage them.
Greeting from Wales.
Hwyl Fawr o'r Cymru.
This is the web site of the rescue I volunteer at.
http://guinearescue.blogspot.co.uk/
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#4
I am sure the all red trait is lovely, but it is not worth the price.
It is not just the inbreeding although that is bad enough. It is also the over breeding and early breeding of the females. That was a horrible outcome. Five pregnant females and in the end there were two dead and only two babies survived.

Ethyl and Annie have done very well to live 5 years and they hopefully have plenty more time. Of course that is because of the good care you give them. I am glad you can work with their teeth and keep them as healthy as possible. Of course Annie has been very cooperative or you wouldn't be able to help her. She is brave little girl.

Guinea pigs do not live all that long. They say 6 years is the average, but I wonder. Baby Lambert is now five. He looks good, but he also looks older. Miss Charlie died at three. The grand guineas have all gone and they were only four. If 6 is the average age, why do we have no 7 + 8 year olds?
[Image: IMG_9091.JPG]
Catherine

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#5
A lot does depend on the start they get and their ongoing care. I heard of 2 piggies owned by a friend of Suzy's that were 11!! Can you imagine that? Wouldn't it be terrific if they all lived that long?

Our Cappy nearly made 5 but had bony issues which made her fragile. Latte is almost 6 but is now looking it, she is thin despite eating well and has fatty lumps in odd places. Mind you, she's still the boss. One look is all it takes for her to get her own way.
Annie and Ethel are both 5 and besides the teeth, are very well, plump generally happy girls.
Marigold must be about 5 now too. She's nicely plump but is losing her sight due to cataracts. But as long as she knows you're there before you touch her she's fine. And the baby Ruby is now three and a half!! but she's still the baby even though she's bigger than her mum now. We know nothing of their history other than they came from a large group released "To the Wild"!!

Inbreeding has some horrific results.
A breeder sow that recently came in to the rescue gave birth to a very badly deformed baby. They were aiming for a nicely rounded head and most of the piggies in that group did show this characteristic, but the dead baby had no lower jaw, no mouth, and it's ear canals met beneath the head. At first glance it looked like a normal baby, if a little big. But on closer examination the deformities could easily be seen. The poor thing had no chance of life.

Happily, the Mum survived, if a little shocked, and has now moved on to a new home where she will never be bred again. She was small and very young. She has now grown a bit and hopefully will live out a normal piggy life in her new home.
Greeting from Wales.
Hwyl Fawr o'r Cymru.
This is the web site of the rescue I volunteer at.
http://guinearescue.blogspot.co.uk/
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#6
I can't picture an eleven year old guinea pig. It must be really old looking. Of course many of my piggies have been rescues so I do not know how old they were. I think Lily and Frodo might have been 7 or close to it. Lambert at five still looks good and Norbert at 4 1/2 looks like a young pig. Rosebert is showing his age, but Miss Charlie was his mom and she had a questionable background.

I am glad your girls are looking good. I hope they all have a graceful and long time as senior pigs.
Poor baby Ruby, no matter how old she gets she will always be the baby. (I am a youngest so I know how it is). I remember that large group of "released to the wild" guinea pigs. It was amazing how well Glynneath guinea pig rescue handled so many at once.

There are so many sad stories about inbreeding. We want a particular trait and we stop at nothing to get it. Whole lines of animals carry serious deformities because people take chances with inbreeding.
That poor little baby, it never had a chance at life. The mom must have been sad. Guinea pigs are such good mothers. I am glad she was given a good home to live out her life in peace.
[Image: IMG_9091.JPG]
Catherine

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