Dogs 'jumping up in greeting' constitutes a threat??

[Tobi]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...homes.html

A Daily Mail online article:
"Dog owners warned of jail threat if their pets jump up in their own homes to greet visitors
Previous laws only protected people against attacks in public places
However new rules make owners liable even on private properties
Owners can be prosecuted even if person only feels threatened."


Only feels threatened....what is that supposed to mean? Certainly, many dogs guarding their house and home and family will show some signs of wariness, and often warning towards strangers who suddenly appear, knock on the door, or enter the garden area.
Granted, some could be aggressive in this situation. It's up to the 'intruder' to respect that (surely?)
I understand that could be difficult for postmen. I ran a post round once as a teenager, and got barked at umpteen times, and my fingers nipped through letter-boxes! Had to vault a couple of gates in a hurry....LOL (I wore sturdy gloves from then on...)

But as for dogs 'jumping up' -well they also do that when greeting people. This across-the-board assessment of canine behaviour, and what does/doesn't constitute a threat is very subjective!

This law seems to be too weird. Possible prosecution for a dog 'jumping up in greeting'....there is something wrong with that!

There may be very mixed feelings about this law, as some may think it's a good thing.
I think it's nuts, myself. But then, I would.

Petition against the bill here, if anyone also thinks it's nuts:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/485/991/4...1372498951

[Catherine]

It is just too subjective a law and too much a blanket law.
Basically if your dog is asleep on the couch and someone feels threatened, because they don't like dogs, that could be a problem.

There are people who are scared and feel threatened by a dog that they see through a window.
There needs to be some objective standard to assess things and the threat needs to be a real threat.

I hope the petition helps. It will be a real mess if it goes through and it will result in a huge number of court cases for no real reason.

[Tobi]

Yes, I know.

I agree that dogs' caretakers should teach them not to jump up on people. Little dogs can easily scratch legs badly -even in friendly greeting....and very large dogs can knock a person right over! I know a neighbour's German Shepherd, who is a great dog, a lovely character, and loves me to bits., but he is a particularly big dog for his breed, and easily weighs more than I do.
His greeting for me is very much, "Wow! It's so good to see you! Let's rub up against each other and then play!" His caretaker has stopped him launching his full weight up at me, but he still almost knocks me off my feet, even at ground level! lol I don't mind at all, and position my feet in a certain way to take his weight.
He can't help his size, or his happiness to see me.
But if I were a frail old lady, I could easily take a tumble....That could definitely be a threat to 'health and safety'. Yet that dog is one of the nicest I've ever met. It depends on the caretaker to move him inside if any possible danger is foreseen -and she does.

This law is awkward, and doesn't take account of many 'grey areas' about what constitutes a real threat. I think in many ways it is unworkable.

Yes -some people are phobic about dogs! And even the sound or presence of one can cause them great fear. What is this law supposed to do about that??

[Catherine]

The law should protect people, but it should not cater to their fears.
It is too vague a law to be enforced in a reasonable manner.

Most dogs jump up because they are glad to see us. I know they should be trained to control themselves, especially if the person is smaller, but you can only expect so much from a dog. We need to watch out for problem situations and prevent them. Even if we don't prevent all problems, people would be better to learn what is friendly behavior and what is threatening behavior.
That would be better than judging normal dog behavior as aggressive.
When a person finally meets an aggressive dog they will not recognize the danger.

I actually like it when dogs jump all over the place. It tells me that they are glad to see me. No one else jumps up and down when I come over.

[LPC]

(06-03-2014, 01:30 PM)Catherine Wrote: No one else jumps up and down when I come over.

Well, here's someone jumping up and down instead!....
I agree with all you have both written above. The proposed law is too subjective and open to abuse. For example, a person with a grudge against a neighbour could claim that he felt threatened by the neighbour's dog and require it to be put down. Or a visitor to a house (who happens to intensely dislike dogs) might have a dog jump up to greet him - and then demand that the said dog be put down. Appalling! It is a dog hater's charter.

The mind boggles. The UK seems to be heading towards a police state, where almost any action, even by a over-friendly dog, involves the law. It is at times like this that I am glad I live in France!

I have signed the petition. I just hope they listen....

PS Tobi: Snap! I was a postman for about six months in my mis-spent youth (after university). But I was never bitten, although I had a few close escapes. We were told that we had the right to refuse to deliver a letter if a fierce dog was loose, by endorsing the envelope: "Apparently aggressive dog at large" - although I never had to do that.

[Tobi]

Aw Catherine! No-one jumps up and down when you come over? That is TOO sad!
so here you are (for when you come over here next)....there are two of us jumping up and down now!

Yes...poor dogs. This seems directed against them, like nothing else I have heard of before.
I presume if a dog 'jumped up to greet someone' -that person took offence -the caretaker was prosecuted.....then what? The dog is put to sleep?!
Very wrong in my opinion.

'Dog Whisperers' don't always know what they are doing, either.

[Catherine]

Quote:Catherine Wrote:
No one else jumps up and down when I come over.Well, here's someone jumping up and down instead!....Smiley58

Quote:Aw Catherine! No-one jumps up and down when you come over? That is TOO sad!
so here you are (for when you come over here next)....there are two of us jumping up and down now! 71

That is so sweet of you both. Thank-you.

I agree, it is a law that will lead to abuses. There are always neighbours who dislike a dog and want to get rid of it. Or a dog hating person who just wants to hurt dogs and their owners. People with grudges can threaten to report your dog as threatening. The possibilities for abuse are endless.
I don't see any way that this law will help protect people from aggressive dogs.
Dog owners will have to be so careful of people. They will have to stop having company if they want to keep their dog safe. All the law will do is create a climate of mistrust and unfriendliness.

[Janay]

Just signed this. How ridiculous to expect dogs to not react to their surroundings.

[Catherine]

Isn't it just the dumbest law ever. No good can come of it. Neighbours will distrust neighbours and people will do things out of spite.

I hope the law didn't pass. Any news?

[Tobi]

The amended "Dangerous Dogs Act" came into force May 13 2014 in UK.

http://www.nawt.org.uk/advice/changes-da...ice-owners

Under the law "a dog does not have to bite to be deemed dangerous." ".....even if the dog does not bite, but gives the person grounds to feel that the dog may injure them, the law still applies."
This is open to so much subjective interpretation, that in my view, as it stands, it cannot be grounds for a law.
"....the Act also covers incidents on private property in addition to public spaces. This includes your own house and both front and back gardens."

(quotes from the webpage on N.A.W.T.)